Linny describes her wardrobe preparation for her next acting gig, with Nancy’s expert hemming assistance. Nancy talks about the Sectional tournament she is headed to and the challenges of having just played pickleball with Linny, and its shorter paddle. Today we interview Kayla Rae Whitaker about her new novel, RETURNS AND EXCHANGES. If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to have a family business, this book is for you! We learn about Kayla’s inspiration to write RETURNS AND EXCHANGES and get her perspective on the complex characters and interrelationships she builds around the rise and fall of Baker-Taylor discount stores. Kayla Rae Whitaker is a graduate of the University of Kentucky and New York University. Her first novel, THE ANIMATORS, was named a best book of the year by Entertainment Weekly, NPR, Kirkus Reviews, and BookPage. She lives in Queens, New York. Linda asks Kayla why she decided to become an author. Kayla tells us she was an English major who always loved writing and reading. This is where she felt most herself. In retrospect, she thinks it’s because this is how she learned to become a thinker and problem-solver. She never thought of writing as a career, but it was during miserably studying for the LSAT, that she, on a lark, to apply to some MFA programs. During college, however, she had been writing short stories and poetry, and also did some workshops. She was accepted into two which she took as a sign that she should investigate writing, She never thought having her name on the spine of a book was a possibility. She tells us it is. She said the shift from short stories to novels was not a big transition because her short stories felt like they needed a longer format. Linny says she really liked the depth of each of the characters. Kayla says she loves reading family epics, such as EAST OF EDEN. She wanted to write the kind of book she likes to read. Nancy notes that both of Kayla’s books, THE ANIMATORS and now RETURNS AND EXCHANGES, are set in the south and you are originally from the South. Kayla said she likes to set her books in the south because she lives in NYC now and misses the south. RETURNS AND EXCHANGES was written out of homesickness, part of which was during COVID, when she was prevented from returning home. Linny notes that she probably doesn’t miss the sexism she depicts in RETURNS AND EXCHANGES. Kayla agrees. Kayla agrees, telling us that sexism is everywhere, but it has a particular force and flavor in the south and probably Midwest and southwest, as well. Kayla says as she was writing Fran, the honesty of the gender politics that Fran faced crept in. Gender conditioning starts at home watching older relatives and adults in your life and observing how they navigate their lives. Nancy asks Kayla what her inspiration for wanting to set this novel in the 1980s discount retail world. Kayla says she thinks we read and write historical fiction to figure out how we got to the present moment. She did work at a Big Lots, too, and the details of that life are reflected in RETURNS AND EXCHANGES. Kayla specifically got the idea of Fran while she was shopping at a Sears that was just about to close and she wondered what it would be like if a person had poured their life into this store and had to watch its death. Kayla had recently released her first book, THE ANIMATORS, and had experienced sending it out in the world to allow it to fair on its own. She thought this is what it is like for a business, too. Linny asked Kayla how she develops her stories. Kayla tells us she starts from characters, first. The structure of the story develops after the second or third draft where she tries to figure out the plot build. It’s like feeling around in the dark for a light switch. The two elements that gave the book structure were a) Baker-Taylor’s growth and b) what happens to these stories when Walmart and later Amazon come on the scene. Wendy was also a shaping drive. Kayla tells us there was a draft of the book where Wendy had her own perspective, but that didn’t make it to the final version. Instead, the kids’ perspectives were introduced. She hated losing Wendy’s voice, but she wrote her in a full way where her actions decide so much of what happens in the book. Nancy notes there is a significant power differential between Fran and Wendy. Linny points out that Wendy is more aware of this differential than Fran is. Kayla agrees and also says their age difference also impacts the way they look at their lives and their agency. But they do rub off on each other. When Fran meets Wendy, she is starting to feel her power in her business and a little more agency. As a teacher, Kayla teaches THE GREAT GATSBY. Her students react to elements of class and money and its boost to self-perception. Nancy loves how Fran’s growing transformation is outwardly demonstrated by her self-makeover with makeup and new clothing. Nancy notes that just as Fran is finding herself, Fred seems to be losing himself, seeking external validation. Kayla says success can peel away personalities to reveal character. Ultimately, however, Fran and Fred are so different at the most elemental level. Linny notes that she and Nancy loved the story of the children and their experiences. Kayla says she’s always been interested in the dynamics of large families where children experience different lives depending on their age range: different parenting, different family wealth, different political environment. Kayla likes to guess where people fall in their birth order. Josiah is the typical oldest boy. Birdie, the youngest, on the other hand had lots of money but not much parental supervision. So, their experiences were very different. Kayla says Birdie’s section really flowed as she wrote her. Kayla tells us she is the youngest of a family of half-siblings and full siblings. Thankfully, she didn’t encounter the challenges Birdie did! Linny wants to talk about Sam and the mental health challenges he faced. Kayla tells us she did a lot of research on mood disorders and treatment options during the 1980s. Kayla wanted Sam’s path to be a strong one with a happy ending. Linny really appreciated Kayla’s care in writing him. Kayla notes that Sam is a force of gentleness and support for the entire family. Kayla loves characters who grow and change and learn to connect with others better through the experiences they have. Kayla tells us she had to work hard to love Fred. George Saunders, the writer, says you have to love your characters even when they’re not making great decisions or being great people; you have to understand them. Nancy agrees that it is impossible to hate Fred because Kayla does give us his thinking and what leads him to the actions to takes. He becomes more of a tragic character. Kayla tells us she is working on a contemporary rom com next. She says she loves to zoom into book clubs, which can be arranged through her website. There is also a discussion guide there. Next month our book is BUCKEYE by Patrick Ryan.